Talk: Seven Great Demon Lords

Untitled

Isn't Barbamon mentioned as one of the seven in Next?KrytenKoro 01:22, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

To my knowledge, they called him "The Demon Lord", which has also been used for VenomVamdemon. Lanate 02:09, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

I know

It's probably way too late to change the primary fan-name, but is their any basis for "Seven Great Demon Lords" being the translation, as opposed to the more contextual "Seven Great Devils"? Is "Demon Lord" ever actually used in the dub? Or hell, even "Devil Kings" would be an acceptable translation. Basically, is there any english source that calls anything "Demon Lord"? If not, what do they use instead?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 17:21, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Lucemon calls his Satan Mode the "true Cho-Mao" (超魔王, lit. "Super Devil King") in DWDS, so so far the dub name is just "Mao" for Demon Lords.

Damnit, the one time they actually refer to the SGDL in the anime, and it's replaced with "Belphemon and six others". WTH!Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 18:19, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

And the only other instance, Belphemon calls himself "the Deadly Digimon, Belphemon!"

I'd like to vote for using the Japanese term (Demon Lord) in instances like this, when the dubbers are going out of there way to just be—well, not only idiotic, they do that all the time, but actively destructive to the intent of the material.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 18:39, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

The Bandai cards use "Evil" for all Digimon with "Demon" in their type, which is completely inaccurate the the connotation of "Demon Lord". I'll check my DS when I get home, but do any of the Digimon World games featuring Demon Lords give them any sort of name?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 19:58, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Okay, Digimon World Data Squad consistently calls them "Mao type Digimon", but screw that, I'm not playing along with that nonsense. The only other dub source I can think of would be Digimon World DS, which I don't have, or Digimon World Championship, which I haven't played.

DWD & D call Lucemon a "Demon Digimon".

!!!! DWD & D calls Beelzemon "One of the Demon Lords"! We've finally got a sane dub name! Woot!

On a side note, the game also uses "Paladin" as the translation of "Holy Knight", at least for Sleipmon. Do we want to do anything with that?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 10:52, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Based on the Three Archangels thing, I'm pulling for "Seven Archdevils" if we ever get a romanization for this from BoJ.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 05:43, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, so the backs of the Code Keys in DSAM have the name in English DigiCode:

"THE SEVEN GREAT DEMON LORDS"

"THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS"

It's an unambiguous reference to the group itself, rather than their type (should we be using "Mao", "Deadly", and "Demon Lord" mentioned above as English types in the infoboxes? -- I'm less angry at "Deadly" now that I realize it's a standing for Seven Deadly Sins, rather than a euphemism for "Demon Lord" a la "Evil"). It's also set in an anime timeline, and before Dawn and Dusk. So, this or "Seven Deadly Digimon" (pending citation verifying it as group name, not just type) would be fine with me. Thoughts?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 18:15, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

Shadowlord and Ogudomon

Once we get some kind of full confirmation that Ogudomon is a member, we should probably add both of these to the section as the "Super-Demon Lord's". Shadowlord is explicitly mentioned as such in DWDS, making it a part of the concept of the group, if not a dues-paying member, and the same basically goes with Ogudomon.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 11:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Code Keys DigiCode Text

Does anyone know what the English DigiCode on each of the SGDLs' code keys say in DWDS? So far, all I can make out is that their names are spelled in DigiCode at the top of each of them. --AinzX 07:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Do you have any pictures? To be honest, I kind of stopped playing before getting to Belphemon, as the battling was just too long for me.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 18:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

I haven't actually got the game but, the only "images" I can provide are ones from pausing videos which are from the highest quality ones I can find and in each case the text below the crest is illegible (unfortunately, I couldn't find the other three in similar quality):

• @2:06 (Code Key of Sloth)
• @1:36 (Code Key of Lust)
• @2:10 (Code Key of Greed)

--AinzX 21:27, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

I can't see it either. Once I get out of finals Friday, I'll see if I can boot up the game and take notes for you.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:26, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

So....

Yeah.

We need to incorporate this info, because Ainz did one hell of a job figuring out stuff on this that most people never even thought of.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 05:29, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Xros Wars

Should we also include the anime? Lilithmon's profile mentions the SGDL. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 15:45, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

The toei site profiles are just copy-pastes of the Dictionary, with a few rare exceptions, and provide nothing to confirm that they are talking about the actual character rather than just the species. However, if the Asahi or Jintrix profiles mention them as SGDL and provide evidence that they mean the anime characters, then yes we can. This goes for the Royal Knights, Olympus Twelve, and Ten Legendary Warriors, as well.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 17:40, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

One of Lilithmon's Jintrix cards mentions both the SGDL and the Three Head Officers. Should we consider that the mention to the Head Officers makes that card a character card? Anime... PAAWAA!!! 16:52, Febraury 9, 2012 (UTC)

Which card is it? I can check the profile on the card to see if it backs it up. To my recollection, the groups listed on the card face sometimes overlap.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 17:40, February 9, 2012 (UTC)

It's 1-104, the profile doesn't mention the Bagra Army or any thing related to the anime, but it lists her as "Seven Great Demon Lords" and "Three Head Officers" (or "Three Commanders" in Wikimon's translation). Anime... PAAWAA!!! 18:14, Febraury 9, 2012 (UTC)

Jintrix also conflates MetalGreymon XW and MetalGreymon L, as well as the Adventure and Tamers Terriermons. I don't think we can treat that box as anything other than our own infoboxes.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 04:19, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Would the Beelzemon seen in Xros Wars be counted as a alternate form for the demon lord beelzemon in the normal sence or in the same way as daemonm cloacked?DalekSupreme13 07:15, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

The SGDL are belphemon, lucemon, lilithmon, beelzebumon, leviamon, daemon, and barbamon

Although the Lilthmon and Leviamon in Digimon Xros Wars are not named as a members of the Seven Great Demon Lords within the anime itself, it is named a member on the card based off of it.

The Beelzemon in Xros Wars is only called a member of the SGDL in his original Toei profile, which was removed once they noticed that they had just copy-pasted the original form's profile from the dictionary. That's why we don't use the Toei site's profiles as applying to the actual character.

Lilithmon's Jintrix card just has an excerpt from her Dictionary profile, and lists that she has appeared in both the Three Head Officers and the Seven Great Demon Lords. However, those lists are compilations, not definitions of a specific character--they have what is clearly Tamers Terriermon listed as "Digimental of Fate" because of Willis's Terriermon, and they have MetalGreymon XW listed as "Crest of Courage" because of Tai's MetalGreymon.

The blurbs on the SDT cards, however, are absolutely about the character, and if we can get one of those (or the asahi profile, I haven't checked it yet) to say that "Leviamon, Lilithmon, and Beelzemon are SGDL", then yes, they should be listed as such.

Belphemon

is this the same Belphemon as in DWDS? who are the VAs?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:15, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

No, it's not. The Belphemon from DWDS is a kid merged with the Code Key of Sloth; this is a different Belphemon.

Digimon can be resurrected, though, and to treat them as separate is to claim that there are two groups of SGDL in data squad: one that got sealed away, and another that got sealed away with the key cards. Depending on when the game is supposed to be set, it makes more sense to believe that the code key either has the remnants of Belphemon, or allows him to be channeled from wherever he actually is sealed. I believe the channeling bit, because this game makes more sense as happening before the Royal Knights arc, but either way it's hard for me to believe that the DWDS Belphemon is not at least a part of DDS Belphemon.

Also, what's the deal with Digimon World DS? Is that within the Data Squad universe, or are the DATS characters dimensional travelers or something?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:15, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Here's the impression that I'm getting:

1. Digimon Savers Another Mission: They are channeled from wherever they are imprisoned.
2. Digimon Data Squad: Belphemon reappears and is defeated.
3. Digimon World DS: The SGDL reappear.

However, that leaves the question of whether the SGDL in DS are implied to have ever been imprisoned or defeated, and why this order is opposite the show...so I guess my next question is, are the SGDL in Digimon World DS real, or are they copies like in DWDS-DSAM?

Final question: Each of these settings has the DATS squad as major characters, so they are clearly the same setting. Even if we decide they are incompatible (and honestly, Belphemon in the anime is the thing that mucks it up), should they all be covered as the same essential character, as the Ten Legendary Warriors and Celestial Digimon are for Frontier and the games based off of it?

Eh, it seems like it might be less speculatory to cover them as separate sections, it's just that it feels messy to me to do that, because of DATS being in each one. Plus we have to make new parsers for DWDS and Digimon World DS.14:25, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I think that the game doesn't make sense in any time period in the Savers universe, if you consider that the events of the episodes 12-48 seem to happen on THE SAME WEEK!!! I think the game is non-canon as it's impossible to place it chronologically near to any episode. But I think that the Code Keys might be like the Legendary Spirits.

The DS thing, I heard that it's actually dimensional travel, at least for Dawn/Dusk. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 14:59, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

No yeah, Dawn/Dusk is, but DS actually mentions DATS as part of its backstory. Dawn/Dusk just has them as cameos in a post-game quest.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 15:37, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Um, in retrospect, want to merge the Belphemon (Digimon World Data Squad) and Belphemon (Data Squad) characters? Lanate (talk) 06:21, July 19, 2012 (UTC)

Possibly.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 05:42, April 18, 2013 (UTC)

Okay, so returning to this: considering that the seven, as a group, are depicted in Awaken Belphemon!, and that per the Belphemon profile, DSAM portrays the SGDL as basically primal manifestations of the sins that can manifest through various vessels, I propose merging the DSAM and DS sections into DS-suffixed sections, with DSAM being treated as "Meanwhile, another manifestation of X appeared (in DSAM)." I know there's some unofficial placement of DSAM discussed on wtw that is the best candidate -- I believe it is right before DATS gets shut down? There might also be calendar clues in the game, what with all the chatting options at HQ, but we'd need a text dump I feel. The sections also need to mention the remanifestations of the sins after their Code Key holders are defeated, and then that they merged with the DATS Digimon.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:46, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

At the time of the game, Suguru is still missing. This is mentioned in one of the first scenes. There's no chronological placement for this game that doesn't cause a continuity error, as after episode 12 everything in the series is very tight knit (heck, I even suspect everything from episode 12 to 48 happens in the same week), so we would have to use the term "at some point" when writing character synopsis. I guess it's another case of a game being made without the involvement of the anime staff. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 15:19, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Beelzemon DS

Why was Beelzemon's DS image removed? His boss battle uses the party Beelzemon sprite as far as I'm aware. He's even a single zone enemy. Lanate (talk) 19:37, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

I was unaware of that. Sorry, everybody!Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 20:00, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Lucemon's variations

Since Lucemon Shadowlord Mode was the leader of the Demon Lords in Digimon World Data Squad, shouldn't he be in the Lucemon's variations section of the table? Tailed Fox 00:56, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

He's a Super Demon Lord, which will be in a different place when it's added.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 02:37, February 11, 2012 (UTC)

Main image

Now that we finally have Dictionary images for each form, should we create a full image similar to that used for the Digimon Sovereigns? If not, should we change the Digimon Sovereigns to one of the cards or screenshots that shows all five of them? Or should we use a screenshot here?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 22:39, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

Code Key children

Source: [1]

Beelzemon, Barbamon, and two of the Belphemon children bullied Yuma. I'm assuming that one of the Belphemon was meant to be the Leviamon child, but the game is what it is.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 04:17, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Question

I think the anchors should be inside the characters sections. It may be more practical in case we may ever need to change anything.

The reason why I put the anchors above the section headers is because if the anchor code is put below it, the page (for me at least) tends to cut the section header out entirely. For that reason, I thought it looked aesthetically better to have the anchors above the relevant section. Lanate (talk) 22:38, July 31, 2012 (UTC)

We cooooould just set up the redirects correctly...Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 02:39, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

=P I dislike using the numbered system though, especially if headers change. But I wouldn't mind switching over. Lanate (talk) 02:41, August 1, 2012 (UTC)

It's not like skipping the header will impact in anything about the page. If you want to see the header, just roll the page up. I think that knowing that there's an anchor there once you click on "Edit" is more important than aesthetics. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 03:17, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

But aesthetics are what the casual user browsing the site will see, and if we're going to be redirecting to that anchor, it should be because it looks good. Or we could just go with Kryten's suggestion and abandon the anchor in favor of the [2, 3, etc.] style redirects. Lanate (talk) 03:30, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, but we also need a way to somehow tell editors that there's an anchor there once they click on "Edit", because it's like you just start editing on a Wiki and already know all the templates they use. How about leaving hidden notes saying that an anchor is placed in the previous section? Anime... PAAWAA!!! 22:50, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good. Lanate (talk) 20:08, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

I think you guys are overthinking this. These anchors exist because of a redirect system that we (literally us three, not the wiki as a whole) put in place, and casual editors aren't going to have any contact with it besides being redirected. I mean, have casual editors EVER addressed the redirects, besides an errant wikia janitor cleaning up double redirects?

In fact, the only reason the redirects direct to the anchors instead of the specific headers is for our own benefit. I'm of the opinion that it's not too much of a hassle to use direct redirects, but if we're using anchors, the only visible effect they'll have is whether the header appears or not, so that's what we need to maintain. We really, really don't need to throw even more coding at this to publicize a kludge that is quintessentially our private tool.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 20:46, August 2, 2012 (UTC)

I was thinking of "casual" editors that come in and stay, like I did.

But I just came up with a simple solution. One thing I observed about headers, is that you can throw bold, italic, and underlined codes without affecting the header's name. Then, I thought if you could do the same with anchors. Turns out you can. I think this solves it, placing anchors inside the headers. I'll apply this to other pages now. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 15:56, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

This is incredibly hideous, though, and ignores the reason we created the anchor template (to allow redirects to point to a part of the page where we didn't want a header).

Plus, if a character has its own section, there's no point to having an anchor. We shouldn't be using them in sections where there are multiple characters in one section, unless the different forms are actually covered in significantly different parts of the section (like, Etemon gets a paragraph or two, then MetalEtemon gets a totally separate paragraph).

If it's a worry of figuring out which ID number each redirect should get, I can do that myself guys, you don't have to worry about counting. Seriously, I really, really dislike this method of using the anchors.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 17:40, August 7, 2012 (UTC)

Digimon Masters

Masters refers to Daemon as "one of the 7 great demon lords".Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 03:32, July 3, 2013 (UTC)

Demon

Hey guys! Shouldn't have Demon of Digimon Adventure V-Tamer 01 a section in this page? Although in the manga it isn't mentioned, in the cards Bo-10v, Bo-26v y Vj-9 from Hyper Colosseum (the cards of the character of the manga) it is said that he is part of the group. What do you think? Charles.929 (talk) 23:57, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

No, those cards just call him a "Demon Lord", which is his type.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 04:26, July 17, 2013 (UTC)

Hi again! I've been asking in Wikimon and they say that, although the concept is never said in the manga series, it's not impossible at all cause the design of one of the cards of Demon in Adventure V-Tamer (Bo-10v) is the same as the one of the Seven Demon Lords used in the Digimon Story game (Daemon_DS). Well thanks anyway :) Charles.929 (talk) 13:16, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

That's not what they meant. The character who appears in V-Tamer 01 is never called one of the SGDL. Whether another character who is part of the SGDL looks the same as him does not affect whether or not he is a member of the SGDL. At best, it's an allusion.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:46, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Collectors titles

These are from the chapter names of the Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins series. Should they be added to the table?

• 七大罪の塔　－暗黒の女神編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Goddess of Darkness Chapter~
• 七大罪の塔　－黄金の古狐編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Schemer of Gold Chapter~
• 七大罪の塔　－目覚めの咆哮編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Roar of Awakening Chapter~
• 七大罪の塔　－消失の楽園編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Paradise of Loss Chapter~
• 七大罪の塔　－絶望の深淵編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Abyss of Despair Chapter~
• 七大罪の塔　－混沌の業火編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Hellfire of Chaos Chapter~
• 七大罪の塔　－最後の決闘者編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Duelist of Finality Chapter~
• 七大罪之塔　－贖罪の超魔王編－ The Tower of the Seven Deadly Sins ~The Super Demon Lord of Atonement Chapter~

Towers

Should the Tower images be merged with the table? Also, should they be renamed to their sin, or stay named by Demon Lord?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 18:21, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

Dawn and Dusk

Is there a quest about the SGDL in Sunburst and Moonlight? I still have not completed the game, and I can't find info about their existence neither here or in Wikimon. I'm asking because the plot for Sayo's quests in Cyber Sleuth is that after she defeated the Demon Lords in her world, their power was added to the SGDL of the CS world, and Dianamon was deleted as punishment, and defeating the SDGL is the only way to restore her. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 17:04, March 21, 2015 (UTC)

No, there isn't. The closest is the "Three Great Demons" quest, Sayo's version of the "Three Great Angels" quest. She fights the dark versions of the Archangels, Demon, Lilithmon, and Cherubimon Vice.

The game might be mixing its story up with the original Digimon Story, in which the SGDL were a series of bosses, similar to how SM use the Kowloon Co.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 16:47, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

Cyber Sleuth and multiverse

I will still need to get to the quest videos, but according to the TV Tropes page (which lists Aster Selene as an editor in the page's history), defeating the SGDL of one universe causes their power to spread to other universes. TV Tropes specifically states this is a "sin". We see an example of this in Sayo: She defeated the SGDL of her universe, and had Dianamon deleted as a punishment, and the TV Tropes page claims that Aiba commits and the same sin by helping Sayo defeat the SGDL of their universe, and the only reason they don't get the same punishment is due to Mirei's meddling. The Japanese Wikipedia article has a link to the Japanese cosmic censorship hypothesis article in their SGDL section, but I don't know what's the context yet.

If we can confirm this, where do we put this info, and do we consider it valid multiverse-wide, or only to Sunburst/Moonlight and Cyber Sleuth universes, or what?

By the way, Cyber Sleuth has our first explanation of how the Digimon multiverse works. I'll translate Mirei's explanation when I have time. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 03:06, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

While the authors of CS probably intended it to be multiverse-wide, they can't actually tell the authors of the other works how their setting should be set up; for example, Sayo didn't actually defeat the SGDL, as that was the original Digimon Story protagonist. It can only be said to be true for the multiverse from the CS PoV. Similar situation is the Thirteen Primes in any pre-Prime Transformers series vs. in Prime itself: pre-Prime, we were told "this is how it is in every setting", but then the authors of Prime decided "we are going to have different rules, and screw the multiverse".

I can't really see how the SGDL would be related to a CCH, unless they are the event horizon round-about protecting the multiverse from a singularity of good? I guess the Homeostasis's whole "balance" schtick could imply that, but we'd need citations from the game itself. I don't want to use Japanese wikipedia for sourcing anything, and the TVTropes pages for Digimon are replete with fanmyths (I trust AS, but not TVTropes itself. If she's the one who added that info, we can easily ask her to provide the citations for our own use).Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 13:35, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

According to my extremely rough translation, the Japanese wikipedia page says that the SGDL are the Digimon at the peak of the evil hierarchy, and are not native to this Digital World. For that reason, no kind of limit can be placed on their evolution. In the DLC, they are fought and defeated in order to resurrect Dianamon, who had not committed a sin. According to Mirei, the SGDL operate a certain seal that is said to distribute their power through every parallel dimension, with the extremely bothersome result that if the SGDL are destroyed in one world, they will only become more powerful in the others. (This is basically The One (film)) Because it's something that occurs due to the providence of the worlds, and is not necessarily performed by a person, it's something similar to the cosmic censorship hypothesis. For that reason, if one disturbs this principle, it will generate a punishment to counterbalance it (In Sayo's case, the annihilation of Dianamon, who had become as powerful as the SGDL).

So, it sounds like the SGDL created a seal so that any one incarnation of the SGDL is actually only a meager fragment of their true, immense power, which has been split over multiple dimensions, and that as you defeat the incarnations, their power only pools in all the rest. I believe the reference to the CCH is because the seal has been integrated into the running of the multiverse and does this automatically, without anyone needing to perform a ritual upon death, but it's very difficult grammar to parse and I could easily be wrong. The last sentence about Dianamon seems to be saying not so much that Dianamon did anything the gods consider "wrong", but that the SGDL found a way to cheat the system and pay for their special ability with the life of the one who killed their incarnation, basically meaning they get to have the store paying for their groceries. Dianamon got eaten in the backlash of killing the SGDL, and presumably used as the price to transfer their power to their other incarnations.

Again, this is (1) based on wikipedia, and not canon quotes, (2) an extremely rough translation that I have no confidence in, and (3) based on me choosing what seems like a reasonable setup, without having watched game footage. Hell, it's possible that it's meant to say that, if you defeat the SGDL, you get a free resurrection out of it (instead of perverting the equivalent exchange, it goes into overdrive, and by killing an SGDL you get to anti-kill (resurrect) a good guy). Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:14, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

As for the Story contradiction, maybe CS interprets Sb/Ml as a different universe from the first Story game.

Also, the only reason I brought this topic up is because Aster Selene is listed as an editor in the TV Tropes article. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 14:36, September 24, 2015 (UTC)

As an off hand, I'd say that it's Story-specific interpretation of the SGDL. It could also be that this Sayo comes from a parallel world to the one that Sunburst/Moonlight depict, like how (IIRC) the Digimon that Ryo recruits in Brave Tamer are actually parallel versions of the canon ones. Lanate (talk) 03:17, September 25, 2015 (UTC)

" Sayo didn't actually defeat the SGDL, as that was the original Digimon Story protagonist.". Just because she didn't kill them in her base game, doesn't mean it didn't happen. It's just an off screen victory. The sin is for killing the demon lords, the DS protag merely defeated them (and then Beelzemon became his friend). Then Dawn/Dusk happens at... who knows when in the time line and then after they save the world - Sayo kills the Demon Lords (with only Dianamon, somehow) in the DS universe, which is then a dimension hop that leads Aiba to kill the DLs as well. Rather than treating it as "didn't happen", it should be treated as "she killed them after defeating ExoGrimmon". What's also interesting is that is makes Dawn canon, mainly because of Super Xros wars - where she has the Dawn members of Kowloon Co. So what that would mean is - Koh defeated ExoGrimmon and then later on, Sayo killed the SGDL. https://i.imgur.com/vLxZhaZ.jpg here is a picture where she specifically states the DL were killed. The DS protag didn't kill them and instead became BFFs with one of them.Marcusbwfc (talk) 03:06, August 20, 2018 (UTC)

It can't be "story specific" btw. Mirei mentions that the SDGL of her universe (Re:Digitize) have become stronger too, due to Sayo's actions. So that's Ds/Dawn/Dusk universe, CS universe and RD universe.Marcusbwfc (talk) 04:21, August 20, 2018 (UTC)

The Story and Sunburst/Moonlight universes are explicitly separate, and Sayo defeats the "Three Great Demons" (Daemon, Cherubimon, Lilithmon), rather than the SGDL. Technically she defeats a Beelzemon Blast Mode as well. However, the SGDL do not exist as a group in the Sunburst/Moonlight setting. As far as how the sin works, well...the English version of the game is rife with mistranslations. I'm trying to find the JP equivalent of the scene you posted, but I'm having trouble. Can you specify which mission it happens during?

I also don't see why Dawn wouldn't already be canon, nor why this would make Dawn canon.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 14:48, August 20, 2018 (UTC)

I guess it depends if the Dusk members exist still, but they didn't show up in Super Xros. Anyway, here's a video of the Japanese quest. Mirei's "you killed them all" took place in the first conversation in English so you'd just need to watch around 5 mins at most. Following voices, text and hand movements I think I've found each line for Japanese. In the English she states "you need to defeat the Demons to free Dianamon" and here it is in Japanese https://i.imgur.com/7R0irW2.jpg . (this isn't the line I was referring to for killing) this appears to be her saying they exist in all universes at once https://i.imgur.com/fJlx5IT.png this appears to be the line where she states Sayo "slayed" all the members in her universe whilst stating the ones in every universe, including her own, are now stronger because of it https://i.imgur.com/J4tfQGQ.jpg here appears to be her saying dianamon was taking because of the sin (killing them all) https://i.imgur.com/WIox1Gv.png the conversation takes place between 18:42 and 23:03. So it seems to be stating that Sayo killed the ones from her universe but we only need to defeat the ones in the CS universe to free Dianamon. edit: I forgot to include the video. It's here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXnXilCWa3E&index=60&list=PLLQM4U2SnFUWhxf4MN_vTDRvmexXmgYDP with the conversation before any demons are killed being at 18:40 to 23:02.

Now for the Monzaemon quest. The quest log in English states "The Seven Deadly Demon have fallen" which seems to state they have been killed. Here it is in Japanese. https://i.imgur.com/avX7f8F.png I believe this is where she states Aiba has done the same as Sayo so will now have to be punished too https://i.imgur.com/YKwmHNY.png (and it was stated sayo killed them) https://i.imgur.com/IpJE28h.png this appears to be where the english states mirei herself "wont punish you" (so the multiverse traveller seems to be in charge of the demon lord punishments lmao. explains why she was able to return dianamon, if she took her in the first place) https://i.imgur.com/3pzFofV.png she reiterates this by stating "I forgive you" https://i.imgur.com/zTeScjM.png this scene in english has sayo state "those digimon must be defeated, its the only way to save the world" (so she's stating that monzaemon is all seven DL together? I guess in a way that counts as DNA digivolution?) https://i.imgur.com/9zHiS8O.png in english she states "show me your power" (and then you fight Monzaemon, so this pretty much confirms it's her partner in this fight, I guess?) https://i.imgur.com/v1K5sqs.png "no, my ultimate digimon... shattered... (so killed. also, "my digimon") https://i.imgur.com/JNpK3Uj.png she states her digimon was supposed to "bring new values to the world and open everyone's eyes". the before monzaemon talk starts at :48 seconds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNNBLk1O3ME&index=63&list=PLLQM4U2SnFUWhxf4MN_vTDRvmexXmgYDP and ends at 4:40, whilst the after monzaemon fight starts at 14:04 and ends at 17:59. however, I believe the screen shots - provided it's translated line for line, should be enough. It seems to be - Sayo kills the demon lords in her world, mirei punishes her then summons her, you then defeat or kill them too and mirei, due to getting what she wants doesn't punish you because you got her the sins, which she then uses to make the "ultimate digimon". you then kill it and she gets upset but just moves on. This counts as her new partner and she becomes an outright bad guy and wants to rule the world etc. In that essence, this Monzeamon is her partner and may even count as all seven together as a fusion of sorts.Marcusbwfc (talk) 19:40, August 20, 2018 (UTC)

Also, should we make a section under Dawn/Dusk with it mentioning she killed them all and Dianamaon was trapped, or would that be too confusing etc for anyone reading the D/D section, thinking it happened in game, rather than being mentioned in Cyber Sleuth. It'd be referring to the members being killed by Sayo, rather than stating in game, so we can use a DSCS story link.Marcusbwfc (talk) 19:54, August 20, 2018 (UTC)

That first image uses "倒す", which can mean "kill", but in general just means "defeat". This is in line with the lore shown in Digimon Savers Another Mission (and Belphemon's profile), that you can defeat a Demon Lord in one universe and it will just respawn from the next accumulation of sinful data.

I don't think we should make a section under Dawn/Dusk, because as covered above, this Sayo appears to be Cyber Sleuth-specific, not from Dawn/Dusk. Her plot synopsis does not fit with those games. Without any specific references tying her to the Dusk incarnation (like referencing Grimmon, etc.), then it seems closer to a V-Tamer 01 situation, where you have a character that is visually identical to another character, even sharing the same name, but is a separate entity. As such, I'd keep it in the cyber sleuth section unless we had something from the authors explicitly stating this was the character from Dusk (and, hopefully, acknowledging the plot hole).Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 20:18, August 20, 2018 (UTC)

If it can mean kill, perhaps we should treat it as such due to the English text specifically saying she killed them. And again, it can just mean she killed them off screen way after the Grimmon stuff. I mean, Rina gets up to stuff off screen too with Barbamon stealing Veevee's digivolution power. If we treat it as the exact same Sayo in every single appearance, it would be the one from Dawn, due to the three Dawn members fighting with her in Super Xros. The English text also has Sayo mention she was in her own Digilab (and corrects the Dawn/Dusk error by stating she's from Dark Moon City's Night Claw) when she was suddenly summoned by Mirei, though I assume she would have a Digilab in both games either way. Anyway, based on all this - does it change anything for this multiverse thing? and what to do about this Monzaemon? at the least, I figure it counts as a Mirei partner due to her making it, then forcing you to fight it and I guess she wanted it to kill you so she could take over the word. She outright becomes a bad guy at the end of this scenario. I've never played World Data Squad (dammit Bandai, why did you skip Europe so much?) so I can't comment if they're characters but the Beelzemon and Lillthmon are in the CS universe at least. I think perhaps rather than it being a "punishment", Mirei was just being a dick - considering it appears to be her doing these punishments. She can't be everywhere at once and she was clearly just in it for her own deeds here. If we do count it though, it would count for Dawn/Dusk, Re:Digitize and Cyber Sleuth due to Sayo/Aiba/Mirei. Perhaps it could be treated as a Habu thing.Marcusbwfc (talk) 20:37, August 20, 2018 (UTC)

For if it's the Dusk Sayo, if Gematsu is to be trusted, they state it's the one from Dusk https://gematsu.com/2015/01/digimon-story-cyber-sleuth-pre-order-campaign-adds-free-post-launch-dlc - https://gematsu.com/2015/02/digimon-story-cyber-sleuth-free-post-launch-dlc-confirmed. Some Japanese sites also state she's from Dusk (I used google translate on sources) https://www.inside-games.jp/article/2015/02/11/84941.html this inside-games one seems to be in line, word for word, with the gematsu article. this one also states she's from Dusk https://www.4gamer.net/games/243/G024343/20150130060/ all the sources I see seem to be stating she's from Dusk and is stating the wording the exact same way. https://www.famitsu.com/news/201502/10071307.html Also Famitsu. They all must be getting their info from the same source, they're saying things the same way and using the same pictures (and includes a Dianamon model, which we should be able to use). I had a look at the website linked on the DSCS page linked here and this must be where they're finding their source http://digimonstory-cs.bngames.net/special/privilage04.php Google translate doesn't work on this page though. Marcusbwfc (talk) 20:57, August 20, 2018 (UTC)

Treating it as "kill" doesn't make sense with the rest of the side quest, where they simply have to be defeated.

The official site does say she's the Sayo from Dusk, so there's that.

I'm still not following your argument about Super Xros or Dawn, or what you're asking about Monzaemon. Not sure about Mirei as well.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 15:21, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

Just if Monzeamon counts as her partner due to her creating it, sending it to fight and then stating "my" ultimate digimon after you kill it. As for Dusk, I guess that means she killed/beat/whatever Demon Lords in her own timeline after all - off screen. Her being from Dusk doesn't make too much sense when the Dawn members are in Super Xros but I guess they all exist at once in Super Xros and the Dusk versions just didn't show up that day. Anyway, that page you linked for Story supports all the Story games being in the same universe, with DS and Dawn maps showing up in LE (+the return of the Tamer Union). Super isn't linked though it seems. Based on the posts in that thread, the dub added the "other world" thing and the Story DS games are all one universe (and Sayo shows no signs of aging). So all signs point towards Sayo dealing the with SGDL in the original DS at some point later. The real question is where her Lotosmon and MG BM are. Maybe they're dead now and only one could be revivedMarcusbwfc (talk) 18:51, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

I had a look at the Legendary Tamer quest btw (When I played Dawn, I lost to Sayo like 4 times lmao so never finished it) and they're stated as follows; Sayo is listed as from the same world (of course), the Next Guys are "from V-Jump", Dats are stated "from Data Squad". What's weird is one of the characters from Light Fang comment on Thomas and is his fan girl (somehow? I guess maybe the Data Squad ones are from Data Squad, but we still have the ones from the original DS running around the Story world. It makes no sense the girl knows who Thomas is). When Kogure comes out, they also know who he is and are shocked he's shown up. They make no mention of Kogure being from any alternate world at all, unlike the DATS and Next characters. The fight is in here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IEpRtdGi98 they specifically state the others are from other universes - but not Kogure. Start from 1:22. So there is nothing to state that DS/DD are different universes. Marcusbwfc (talk) 19:26, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

So basically - "Sayo from Night Crow", "These guys are from V-Jump", "these guys are from Data Squad" and "It's Kogure!". They do not mention him as being from another universe. Only thing they say about him is that he's the smartest dude in the world and knows Digimon better than Digimon know themselves. Him being younger may actually mean that Dawn/Dusk are a prequel, with Chornomon yet to be possessed and the Chrono ASR at the end of the game stating, "if only Chronomon was here", was hinting at the future when here DOES use Chornomon. Nothing is mentioned about him being younger at random, so it seems to be that D/D is a prequel. either way - I see no evidence DS/Dawn/Dusk are supposed to be a different universe and the time line doesn't really matter too much compared to 'same universe', especially with DS/DD maps being in LE.Marcusbwfc (talk) 19:52, August 21, 2018 (UTC)

"Tamers from not only this server...but also from other Digital Worlds will be participating in this tournament."

The tamers from this server (Dawn/Dusk) enter from the portal on the right. Kogure uses the top, like all of the other cameo appearances. Also, nobody but the chiefs know who Kogure is. As for being aware of the characters from other universes -- they have easy dimensional travel. It wouldn't be a problem for stories to get around. They're not sealed off from each other.

DS and Lost Evolution share some area names with Dawn/Dusk, but also many are different, and the overall map does not match. In addition, as with File Island, there are multiple different continuities that share some locations but are different universes -- for example, next order and adventure.

Not sure what you're getting in that thread that indicates that DS and Dawn/Dusk are the same world.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 21:14, August 22, 2018 (UTC)

MaloMyotismon

Digimon Rumble Arena 2's Japanese profile makes a reference to this group but I'm not sure how to incorporate it. It's trivia-ish I think. Lanate (talk) 04:54, May 20, 2016 (UTC)

Maybe something like "some other Demon Lords are rumored to be part of this group, but are not members."?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 12:42, May 20, 2016 (UTC)

Belphemon line

Would this satisfy DW:EVOLVE for the null-canon? Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 19:24, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

I'd think so, it was already the most commonly accepted line for Belphemon so it may as well be the null-canon line. Chimera-gui (talk) 20:12, January 30, 2017 (UTC)

Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth

The Seven Deadly Digimon are Digimon who stand above all demons. They are crowned the Highest of the High and are inborn with evil. Such is their power that the exist in all parallel worlds simultaneously. It is a defense for them to spread their power over time and space. They are a natural, primal factor of the world. In another universe, the Digimon Tamer Sayo of the Night Claw organiszation defeated the Seven of her world and thus increased the power of the Seven Deadly Digimon in every other. In punishment, she lost her partner Dianamon. To regain her partner, she must defeat the Seven of Aiba's world. Without her partner, however, she lacks the strength, so Mirei Mikagura contracts Aiba to defeat the Seven and explains the backstory to them. Aiba accepts, and though Sayo disagrees with having someone else fight for her, she decides to trust them. Mirei alerts Aiba to the location of each of the Seven, and they defeat each of them in turn, obtaining one of the Evidence of Sin each time as their spoils. Each one is proof of Dianamon's punishment, and gathering them all will free her. After defeating all of the Seven, Aiba hands over the Evidences of Sin to Mirei. In a ritual, Mirei returns Dianamon returns to Sayo.

Normally, Aiba should be subject to the same fate as Sayo for defeating the Seven, but Mirei intervenes and uses the Evidences of Sin to spawn a Digimon that shares a value with those Evidences: Monzaemon. Sayo resolves to fight, and Aiba and Sayo take down Monzaemon. Though Mirei performed the experiment to introduce something new into the world, Mirei instead finds her own eyes opening and is pleased with the results of her experiment. Their journey together complete, Sayo and Dianamon return home.

The Seven Deadly Digimon is part of free DLC that was teased and unlocked during the Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth pre-order campaign in Japan.

Draft

Please review for accuracy, this is based on just trying to more clearly word my interpretation of what the article was saying, with some informed by the jp wiki article -- I have not played the DLC myself. citations of exact quotes from the game would help.

Questions:

• Does the game validate the jp wiki claim that this is due to a seal that Barbamon implemented, or something else?
• When it said that the seven are created from evil itself, is this to mean they are created from the data of their respective sins, as in DWDS, Collectors, and Belphemon's profile?
• Is the punishment supposed to be a specific, intelligently-applied suffering for wrongdoing, aimed at encouraging the sinner to "live justly", or is it unthinking karmic backlash, with no aim other than natural fundamental forces preserving a status quo? Basically, are Sayo and Aiba actually "bad" for doing this, or is this just a "nature abhors a vacuum, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" etc. unthinking response?
• Do the Evidences go to a set of Seven in a specific other universe, or would any set of Seven be viable targets for a "punished person"?
• Are the Evidences the same thing as the Code Keys?
• Is this system claimed to be canon to all universes, just the Story subset, or just a subset including CS? For example, is it being retconned that the protags of Frontier, DS, Next, Xros Wars, Decode, Collectors, and Data Squad were also punished? If this is cross-continuity, it should probably be moved to the lead as part of the expanded lore.
• The new values Mirei wants to "arise" -- are these the sins? Does she support having the sins gain prominence? Did she want Monzaemon to survive as some sort of faux-Ogudomon? Is she playing at being Xehanort, using the darkness and encouraging it to spread for her own ends?
• Was the "meddling" Mirei did somehow making Monzaemon a scapegoat for Aiba's "sin", allowing Sayo and Aiba to murder a newborn Digimon in order to escape their "karmic punishment"? Was the Monzaemon "evil", or did Sayo and Aiba basically murder an innocent baby?
• Is the bit in Next Order about the Seven coming from the "Demon World" supposed to be cross-continuity as well? Jp wiki suggested something about how the Seven "are not native to this Digital World" -- is it just referring to them being multiversal singularities, as with Unicron and Primus, or to them being immigrants from a non-Digital World before making themselves singularities?
  • In next 0rder chapter 5 (a.k.a. post-game), it is stated that after the final battle, many Digimon from other universes came to this Digital World. All Royal Knights in the game are from some other universe, and there's also an Imperialdramon that used to be a Tamer's Digimon from another universe. I think the Three Great Angels are also from another universe, but I don't remember enough to be sure. Anime... PAAWAA!!! 16:24, July 19, 2017 (UTC)
• If this is cross-continuity, how are situations like Decode resolved, where one of the Seven is attacking the others? Does it cancel out?

Final note -- we need to also add subsections on each of the seven/their models if we can get rips of them, even if there's not much story for them like in DS/DWDS.

Anyone?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 19:19, July 21, 2017 (UTC)

• Barbamon isn't mentioned at all during this sidequest. I don't known Decode's story, but there's only a passing but pointed comment that Sayo defeating the Seven increased the power of the Seven in Mirei's world.
• It didn't say that they are created from evil itself; it is said that evil is inborn within them. You didn't like the wording for that, but it essentially means that there's evil inherently in them aka. they're evil.
• In my opinion, the sin is for increasing the power of the Seven in other worlds and it's indiscriminate.
• The answer to almost literally all of your questions is "it doesn't specify".
• My opinion of the scene is that Mirei is playing mad scientist and it's hard to dig deeper into the implications of a scene that only ever implies and never actually states anything. If you really want me to speculate, it's that Mirei took the power of the Seven that would have dispersed into separate worlds and incarnated it into Monzaemon as a reference to the original V-Pets. In defeating the Monzaemon in that form, the power never actually leaves to power the Seven of the other worlds, thus there's no sin.
• As a final note, I can't come up with answers that don't exist. Lanate (talk) 00:45, July 22, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! What do you mean by "evil inherently in them"? Like, composed of, containing, etc.?Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 12:12, July 28, 2017 (UTC)

I'd say that they contain evil within them from creation, based on English wording, if I'm trying to deflowerify it. Lanate (talk) 00:50, July 29, 2017 (UTC)

Nothing is mentioned about Barbamon doing anything like that. It would be the backlash part. I wouldn't say it makes Sayo and Aiba 'bad', since the Demon Lords are evil, so it's more a 'take one for the team'. Mirei states it's canon for all universes, though the only confirmed is Cyber Sleuth, Dawn/Dusk and Re:Digitize. You can probably throw in Adventure PSP and Next Order too, due to Habu (although you do/can defeat all seven members in Next Order to recruit them anyway.) We don't see what happens to the World Data Squad version of DATs, so perhaps they lost their partners upon defeating Satan mode. We don't see this happen as the game appears to end upon killing SM. Monzaemon basically acts as Ogudomon in that quest. She merges the remains of the SGDL together, creates Monzaemon and then sicks it on you in an attempt to over throw the world, so you kill it. So it's not an innocent baby, its likely one of the most evil Digimon of all time. Aiba was supposed to be punished, however - for whatever reason - Mirei was allowed to "forgive" Aiba for unintentionally allowing her to create her Monzaemon, so Mirei is able to stop the punishment... for some reason. She does have the power to dimension hop, so I guess she also has the power to stop the SGDL lmao. The SGDL shown in Next Order aren't native to the NO world. They state they live in the Dark Area, but that they had to flee because something (later revealed to be the evil force behind BoltBoutamon) destroyed their Dark Area, so they fled to the Dimensional Sea and eventually found themselves in the NO Universe. You then, hilariously, help out the seven evil dudes and they all join the city as your mates (maybe this is why the NO protag isn't punished, since you can fight them all in NO. They're your friends). Even Satan Mode lmao. As for Demon Lords attacking each other, the ones in Next Order state they're equals so made a contract that they wouldn't fight each other and all respect it because fighting each other is pointless etc, so they can fight each other, and it likely wont harm anything. I think it may be treated as a 'universal canon', but one that isn't known by the vast majority of SGDLs. This isn't the case for all Demon Lords, I suppose. Mirei's new values was pretty much ruling the world with her new fancy powerful Monzaemon lolMarcusbwfc (talk) 01:21, August 26, 2018 (UTC)

We do actually see what happens to the DATS squad after defeating the demon lords. They gain the power to digivolve to that demon lord. They actually defeat all of them twice.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 21:08, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

Fair enough, the game skipped Europe and I didn't have a PS2 anyway (Xbox) and the videos I saw on YT had the play through end seconds after killing Satan Mode. It may probably be best to treat it as a "Habu" thing (though how we'd refer to that in canon in this page is hmmmmmmm), because as stated by someone earlier, it's a bit too much of a stretch to say "this is canon for all universes", even though the game itself states this. I think the only part that could be stated as canon is that someone defeating (killing?) all seven members makes the others more powerful as that doesn't effect much in terms of lore, unlike you losing your partner due to a curse (and tbh, with Mirei being able to "stop it" and being able to return Dianamon, I feel like she is bullshitting the entire quest due to her aim to merge the evidence of sins together to make her Monzaemon and Mirei personally sealed away Dianamon to give Aiba motivation to take them all out). That would just fall under a head canon though but her actions in the quest lean slightly towards it but still yeah, I'd maybe mention it on the page somewhere but have storylinks for the relevant three games of Dawn/Dusk, CS and RD. Or just leave it where it is. (but if this info was from the anime, would it be used as "all canons"?)Marcusbwfc (talk) 21:17, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

I've got to be honest, watching the Monzaemon battle, unless this is a dogjunk translation, I feel like Mirei is just...trolling. Sayo even calls it bulljunk at the end: "I think all this talk about destiny and futures may be just that...talk." Sayo even thanks Mirei afterward, Mirei calls the experiment a success, and Aiba just acts exasperated with her. Maybe this is me trying to bring some common sense to the trope of "friendship through defeat", but I just can't make sense of Mirei actually becoming a villain and flipping back that quickly. Because the "sin and cycle" thing appears in Decode without Mirei's apparent intervention, my read is that the system does exist, but Mirei was being dramatic about "new values", and was simply trying to hack the system by creating Monzaemon to eliminate the Sin Data from the CS universe permanently instead of allowing it to wreck another universe.

Then again, withthewill is claiming that Decode says she has multipler personality disorder, so there's that too.

Not sure what you mean by "Habu".

In short, based on what actually happens in other games, I don't think we should say this mechanic exists in any system that it isn't explicitly said to. Cyber Sleuth retcons Dusk, which is...bleh, feels like they're trying to be "2edgy4me" and "tits-and-grimify" a game that was perfectly suitable on its own, but whatever. But it definitely shows no signs of being true for the other manga, the anime, or most of the other games. I'm very uncomfortable treating one author's setting as applying to all the others, and can only really justify Dawn/Dusk because the quest explicitly retcons it (which I still think is nonsense -- the DS protag was the one that actually DID this, just reference that one for chrissakes!). It seems like this should only be treated as in effect for the settings directly tied to Mirei: Next Order, Sunburst/Moonlight, Re:Digitize, and Cyber Sleuth.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 21:41, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

I 100% agree that it seems to be Mirei bullshitting, heck the "super OP monsters" she makes was actually really weak when I fought it (max level) and all it did was troll me doing shit like, taking all my SP, only to restore it next turn, halfing my HP and then healing it, it didnt seem to actually want to win the battle. She did make it and send to attack the two though. As for the D/DawnDusk SGDL stuff, I again just point out that it can merely be treated that Sayo defeated them off screen some time after the Grimmon incident. I actually say Mirei's "change" also being BS and she's just stubbornly moving on after being defeated so easily. If she does have multiple personalities, then I guess just one of them is evil lol but I for sure agree shes bullshitting for most of this, whether it's for her own amusement (another quest has her making Keisuke collect gross food to give to AlphaKyokomon, with her saying she'll get her to make it into coffee and feed to people), or that she legitimately wanted to change the world. Mirei seems to get off from being a massive troll. As for Habu, hes the producer who did Adventure PSP, Re:Digitize, ASR, Cyber Sleuth, HM, the western remaster for Next Order (which whilst he had nothing to do with the story, he was there for the added on post game story mode with the SGDL vs BoltBoutamon) and the upcoming Survive. He also stated with the Arcadiamon stuff that he put him in there himself, so he likely is in charge of making the storylines, which is why I said we can "probably" throw those other games in, as he did them. I also agree to just treat it as the relevant universes you described. I also read the "Aiba/Sayo have teams" thing but I meant the tamer, so Sayo herself beat them - Sayo herself loses her partner/s. World Data Squad etc, has DATs doing it as a group. What's weird though is that CS seems to be treating Mirage and Lotosmon as simply... not existing. "Without Dianamon you suck lol". uh, she has other Mons, Mirei.Marcusbwfc (talk) 22:07, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

That's part of why I feel like this is a massive retcon of Dusk, yeah. They already have a Story protag who actually defeated the SGDL, in-story, yet they make this ill-fitting version of Sayo that creates so many plot holes instead...it's a mess.

The Hackmon in CS is the Hackmon from Adventure PSP, so...that would imply this system is possibly in place for the Digital Dungeon dimension, which in turn is connected to each of the anime. And the anime definitely don't illustrate any such thing going on, so...I don't think we can even treat it as valid for all Habu games. God, this is a mess. I would prefer we only treat it as valid for the dimensions explicitly said to include it: CS, Decode, and Dawn/Dusk (honestly, possibly not even Dawn?). Not sure about Next Order, given how you described it. This whole thing is just such a gotdamn mess.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 15:38, August 28, 2018 (UTC)

They probably figured Sayo+Dianamon was more marketable (and funnily enough, I was ridiculously hyped to see Sayo return, so it worked). Someone else made Next Order whilst Habu was dealing with the western port of the original CS and then when freed, joined for the western remaster of Next Order. What's funny is he was pissed off at all the recolours, so added 20something non recolours into our version, then in the lead up to HM said "I hate recolours, we're only adding three to HM" (which were one of the Coredramon, MudFrigimon and Guardromon Gold. Also, he said he hates the new Omnimons, which is why they didn't show up in HM I guess.). In the base game, you fight and recruit the Demon Lords normally and whilst I'm not 100%, I'm pretty sure you have to have recruited all 7 to even get started on the "Demon Lords vs BoltBoutamon" stuff, which was a free DLC that launched 1 week after the game came out. So you'd have to defeat them all to start it and yet nothing happens to your dudes. Leviamon, Barbamon and Creepymon don't even like you (and Leviamon actually had it where if he won, he got to eat you), it's Lucemon and Beelzemon who do correspondence with you for all seven during this quest lol. So yeah, I dont think he was involved enough in the base game to count for Next Order, as he merely added new Digimon, bumped up the difficulty and added a few DLC quests etc. Considering that Adventure PSP is an alternate universe version of Adventure, I wouldn't count it as the anime versions of the shows that would "have this lore" but rather "Adventure/Tamers PSP", etc. Lotosmon and Mirage were in CS as well so they literally had no excuse not to use them lol. Also, rather than retcon, just "off screen shit", like how off screen shit happened to Rina with Barbamon taking away VeeVee's digivolution power.Marcusbwfc (talk) 16:00, August 28, 2018 (UTC)

New draft

The Seven Deadly Digimon are the highest tier of demonic Digimon. In order to prevent their destruction, a version of them exists within each universe. These incarnations are primal, fundamental forces of each universe, created from evil itself and crowned the "Highest of the High". When an incarnation of one of the Seven is defeated in one universe, all other incarnations of that member across the multiverse increase in power, and in response to this increased risk to the cosmos, the multiverse automatically punishes whoever is responsible for the incarnation's destruction. As part of this, the empowered Seven in another world are each endowed with an "Evidence of Sin", which serve as physical proof of the previous slayer's "sin" and punishment. Defeating the Seven who hold these Evidence and collecting the full set will reverse the punishment on the previous slayer, but as a necessary result of slaying a new set of the Seven, the current slayer will be subjected to punishment in their place.

Some time before she came to the Digimon Story: Cyber Sleuth universe, the Digimon Tamer Sayo of the Night Claw organization defeated the Seven of the Digimon World Dawn and Dusk world, and as punishment, she lost her partner Dianamon. In order to revive Dianamon, the Seven of Aiba's world must be destroyed, but without Dianamon Sayo is not strong enough to win. In her place, Mirei Mikagura explains the nature of the Seven to Aiba and tasks her with defeating them, despite Sayo's protests. Mirei directs Aiba to the lair of each of the Seven in turn, with Aiba defeating the demon and acquiring their Evidence.

After collecting all seven, Aiba turns the Evidence over to Mirei, who is excited at the prospect of allowing new values to arise. Mirei performs a ritual with the Evidence to undo Sayo's punishment and revive Dianamon, but adds a twist to prevent Aiba from having to take her place. Using the Evidence, she creates an "ultimate Digimon" which shares the values of the gathered Evidence—Monzaemon. By defeating Monzaemon, Aiba can escape their punishment unscathed, and with Sayo's help, they do. Although Mirei performed this experiment hoping to introduce something new, she is instead pleased at the unexpected result. With Aiba and Sayo's journey complete, Sayo and Dianamon return home.

"When an incarnation of one of the Seven is defeated in one universe, all other incarnations of that member across the multiverse increase in power" - All seven have to be defeated for this to happen, not one.Marcusbwfc (talk) 01:23, August 26, 2018 (UTC)

Where does it say this? I was under the impression the plot of Decode relied on Barbamon being able to absorb the power instead of it being transferred to the other dimensions.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 21:08, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

I have no idea about Re:Digitize due to it being Japanese but if you meant all seven have to be beaten, Mirei states "By slaying the Seven Deadly Demons of your World, Miss Sayo, you have granted them strength in every other. Including my own". The quote about "being born from evil" is actually worded as "evil is in born to creatures such as they", so it means that they're born evil, rather than "being born from evil. However, since Barbamon is a Demon Lord himself, I'm not sure he'd be able to absorb this power since he would need to be defeated/killed (unless I guess he loses on purpose then absorbs it?), so if that's the case - it's probably a choice for the DLs to "do the curse" and in that instance chose to instead make himself more powerful. All I've seen from the Barbamon myself is him being a dick to VeeVee in CS. RD is also a Habu game though, so I guess this curse is canon there too. I feel like the curse only works if one individual takes out all the members.Marcusbwfc (talk) 21:31, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

Based at least on how you're phrasing it, that doesn't sound like you need to defeat all 7 of them to start happening, and based on how WtW described Decode, Barbamon is going around murdering the other demon lords because, as a demon lord, he can absorb their released power himself instead of letting it slip to another dimension.

As far as it being an individual, I don't see how that could be in play, since Sayo uses a team of multiple Digimon, as does Aiba.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 21:43, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

That Barba is a dick and deserved that kick to the face then, lol. I guess outright killing them has them drop an "evidence of sin", which is powerful, with Barbamon taking them and powering himself up and Aiba collecting them for Mirei, who then uses them to create Ogudo-no wait, Monzaemon (that was the perfect excuse to have a Ogudamon DLC lmao). I recall mention that the World Data Squad SGDLs drop "code keys" and if they're the same thing and the answer is... probably. If not, they at least serve the same role.Marcusbwfc (talk) 21:55, August 27, 2018 (UTC)

It seems like pretty much the same situation as the Pendants of Virtue/Spiritual Stones/Sacred Flames/Goddess Pearls in Zelda -- they keep changing the name and the physical shape, but it's essentially just a recurring manifestation of each deity's core nature.Now activating Project: SPIDERS EVERYWHERE 15:38, August 28, 2018 (UTC)

I'd say that sounds about right. They only seem to drop it when killed ("slain"), though cuz we've not seen many instances of these existing. (although didn't Lili take one from Lilithmon and use it on her Monzamon to create another Lilithmon, or something? - aso what is it with the SDGL and Monzaemons lmao)Marcusbwfc (talk) 16:00, August 28, 2018 (UTC)